Heinz Dietrich: The man who imagined "socialism of the 21st century"

(Originally posted April 12, 2013 on bbc.com) This Sunday, in Mexico City, a person will be following with special and personal interest the crucial elections in Venezuela: the German economist and sociologist Heinz Dieterich.

And is not for less. In December 1999, Dieterich had a meeting that marked him deeply. To him and his interlocutor, Hugo Chávez Frías, then brand new Venezuelan president.

In the 14 years that have elapsed since then, Dieterich got so involved with Venezuela and its political process that it personally knows almost all its protagonists, including the dome of the Bolivarian Revolution, and what happens and is plotted in the corridors of the power.

When he first saw Chavez, Dieterich was already known on his own merit as a leftist thinker. He had published a book with Noam Chomsky ("The Global Village") and, crucially, his work "The Socialism of the 21st Century".

They were presented by their friend Ali Rodriguez, Minister of Energy of the new government. "When they won the elections I went and said: 'Look, I want to know if there really is going to be a change or if they are going to be like the others.'"

Chavez had read one of Dieterich's books in jail, so he agreed to talk to him. "There was a spontaneous chemistry," says the professor at the Metropolitan Autonomous University of Mexico (UAM).

They talked all night at the Miraflores Palace. After that they would talk many more nights, until 2007, when the break occurred.

"He was a man who learned quickly. He had a dialectical thought, not bureaucratic. He listened. Such a system inevitably modifies his software. His learning was very fast.

"The first time I met him there were obviously limitations in the knowledge of politics in general and of the global world. But I was surprised how, about three years later, through his travels and contacts, he had assimilated knowledge and experiences like a sponge." .

Throughout the conversation with Heinz Dieterich there is a recurring theme: how Hugo Chavez changed after the coup attempt of April 2002.

"Before I think there was a certain inertia of thought. I think the coup woke him up, made him really understand how politics worked. He grew up. From a patriotic, democratic and Christian military, he became a giant of politics." 

An "impact like hell"

Heinz Dieterich speaks Spanish with a slight German accent and walks with a not so light limp. What he does not hesitate is in his answers: They are brave and round.

Its office, on the third floor of one of the UAM headquarters in Mexico City, is spacious and sober. A couple of boards, scattered chairs and two tables. On one of them a shiny set of cups and teapot to serve Chinese tea, possibly reminiscent of a recent trip to that country.

A good part of Dieterich's intellectual and practical efforts now seem to be focused on China - where his ideas begin to be received - but at some point they were towards Venezuela.

But he believes there was progress and managed to change the way of thinking of the popular and middle classes in Venezuela. "It is something that the right has not understood and that is why they are not going to win the elections: today the majority are others. You do not see that (most of) the middle class also wants that model."

"In Venezuela the people have a proactive conscience, they think for themselves. In the Soviet Union and other countries of the twentieth century socialism they received orders. And that is not only a great dike on the right but a control over the bureaucracy."

However, two years after Chavez's speech in Porto Alegre, the rupture occurred.

The concept had been devised by Dieterich to differentiate it from the socialism of the twentieth century (the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea).

"When I meet Hugo Chávez, of course we talk about it, because he was looking for a model ... To my surprise, he throws it in the Porto Alegre forum and obviously had a repercussion of the fuck."

But did Hugo Chávez manage to put some of that theory into practice?

Not economically: "It's very difficult, first of all because you have to understand a bit of economy and the problem with the entire left of the world is that when you talk about a non-capitalist economy, they think it's about placing the flag red at the factory and put a tank. "

That became evident on January 30, 2005, when, at the Fifth World Social Forum, in Porto Alegre, Brazil, Hugo Chavez spoke for the first time in public of 21st century socialism.

The breaking

In his office, Professor Dieterich has only one picture. And it's not hanging, it's set on an old sofa. It is a framed poster of Venezuelan paratroopers, signed by General Raúl Isaías Baduel, one of the four companions with whom Chávez created, in 1982, the Bolivarian Revolutionary Movement. Although he did not want to participate in the coup attempt of 1992, he was one of the key figures to prevent the loss of power in 2002 and became Minister of Defense between 2006 and 2007.

Dieterich became a friend of Baduel and when he marked distance with Chavez in November 2007, criticizing a proposal for constitutional reform - which was eventually defeated at the polls - the Venezuelan president did not take it well. Professor Dieterich says he tried to mediate, something that, he says, some sectors within Chavismo did not forgive him. They were the ones who influenced him away from Chavez.

Online it is possible to find attacks by Chavistas against Dieterich. A typical example says: "Comment from nostalgia and resentment for your loss of influence in Venezuela."

Baduel was arrested in 2009, accused of corruption and is currently in jail, paying an eight-year sentence.

Despite that, Heinz Dieterich keeps a good memory of Hugo Chávez. And it is obvious that he considered him a friend. "Despite our differences, he never spoke ill of me."

What's coming

Returning to politics and elections this Sunday in Venezuela, is it possible to maintain the Bolivarian model without Chavez? Dieterich thinks so. "It is going to be maintained because the majorities want it. Any candidate, whether from the left, center or right who does not respect that will of the majorities, has no future in Venezuela.

"People (including, he insists, the middle class) have been convinced that it is the best model they can have. Because they have income ... of course, inflation is high, but the state replenishes them with minimum wages. It is a a more or less democratic state where electoral defeats are respected. The main problem is crime, but voters are going to say: 'Maduro is going to fix it. You have to give it a chance.' "

About Nicolás Maduro - whom he says he knows well - reflects that "he is evolving his own profile. He maintains the pattern of the commander, but he is gaining his own stature. He will be a good president, without the conditions of a Chavez or a Fidel, but it will be because the system is structured. A catastrophe is not going to exist. "

Nor does he believe that internal divisions will be presented in Chavismo, because he does not see who can shade Maduro, not even Diosdado Cabello, president of the National Assembly and who apparently enjoys great support among the military.

"I believe that Cabello was burned when he wanted to ignore the will of Hugo Chavez to leave Maduro as his successor. That defined his role in the future, he will always be a man of the apparatus. Although he may well become the second in the power. Don't underestimate it. "

Although he has not visited Venezuela for four years, it is clear that the country and its people are passionate about it. At the beginning of March the death and burial of Hugo Chávez followed from a distance. Would you have liked to be in Caracas at that time?

"I felt very sad. But I would not have liked to be there. And if they had invited me I would not have gone. Because there were many people there that I think are climbers. And I would not have liked to see them at that time."

Originally posted at bbc.com